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June 9 Definitions Subcommittee Meeting - Shared screen with speaker view
Jimi Gilroy (he/him)
54:28
All of the meeting materials including the agenda can be found under the Meeting Materials menu item under the June 9, 2020 meeting heading on this page - https://cadatasystem.wested.org/meeting-information/definitions-subcommitteePlease note that the PowerPoint will be available after the meeting.
Jimi Gilroy (he/him)
55:13
Later this morning we will be going into breakout rooms. For members of the public, please let me know which group you would like to join and I can assign you. If you do not choose a room, you will be assigned to a breakout room titled Zoom Guests.Group One: Sex/GenderGroup Two: Sexual OrientationGroup Three: Race/Ethnicity
Jimi Gilroy (he/him)
56:54
You are welcome to visit our website to find out more information about the California Data System - https://cadatasystem.wested.org/
Jimi Gilroy (he/him)
01:06:41
Later this morning we will be going into breakout rooms. For members of the public, please let me know which group you would like to join and I can assign you. If you do not choose a room, you will be assigned to a breakout room titled Zoom Guests.Group One: Sex/GenderGroup Two: Sexual OrientationGroup Three: Race/Ethnicity
Jimi Gilroy (he/him)
01:08:48
Speaking: David Sanabria
Jimi Gilroy (he/him)
01:08:58
CHHS
Jimi Gilroy (he/him)
01:28:29
Speaking: Cameron Sublett, WestEd
Jimi Gilroy (he/him)
01:28:38
K
A: Randy Tarnowski
01:29:15
The background paper was great!
Jimi Gilroy (he/him)
01:32:27
All of the meeting materials including the Background Paper can be found under the June 9, 2020 meeting heading on this page - https://cadatasystem.wested.org/meeting-information/definitions-subcommitteePlease note that the PowerPoint will be available after the meeting.
LeAnn Fong-Batkin
01:34:51
SEA: State Educational Agency; LEA: Local Educational Agency
LeAnn Fong-Batkin
01:39:16
IPEDS: Integrated Postsecondary Education Data System
Jimi Gilroy (he/him)
01:43:35
Speaking: Ravinder Singh, WestEd
Cameron Sublett
01:46:33
Thank you for the feedback, Randy!
A: Monica Malhotra
01:47:48
And gender expression
Edward Sullivan
01:50:53
important to differentiate labels (shown) from what is collected
A: David Sanabria
01:52:12
CDSS Child Welfare has a standard for Gender Identity and Expression called SOGIE. We already know that we are capturing more information that the Feds want.
A: Randy Tarnowski
01:52:19
If it’s a matter of reported, we can begin adding independents derived from IPEDS reporting
A: Randy Tarnowski
01:52:40
(Independent nonprofit colleges/universities)
Jimi Gilroy (he/him)
01:53:22
Speaking: David Sanabria, CHHS
A: Chris Furgiuele
01:55:08
Also important to keep in mind that demographic questions are voluntary so there will always be people who do not answer them. We need to standardize how non-response is treated (i.e. unknown, not reported, etc.)
A: Randy Tarnowski
01:55:30
^^strongly seconded. Especially as we begin to talk about how things are publicly presented
Cameron Sublett
01:55:34
Great point.
Jimi Gilroy (he/him)
01:57:22
Speaking: Amy Fong, CSIS
A: Randy Tarnowski
01:57:29
Building on that, when talking about public dashboard, being very intentional about UI/UX: communicating and educating users while not deterring them from utilizing it
A: David Sanabria
01:57:39
I like the “Declined to Answer” option to explicitly allow respondents to indicate they are answering but not specifying a value.
A: David Sanabria
01:57:58
No Answer ≠ Declined to Answer
Jimi Gilroy (he/him)
01:58:25
Speaking: Jerry Winkler, CDE
A: Monica Malhotra
01:59:22
Will need to have Unknown category to capture missing values.
Edward Sullivan
02:00:13
also need to align trumping rules... international students --- Hispanic/Latinx - race and non-Hispanic
A: David Sanabria
02:00:14
What about “Other” as a catch-all for an element that we have not defined
Amy Fong
02:01:08
definitions evolve over time as well
A: David Sanabria
02:01:42
Amy: Need for “Effective Start Date” for every element, so codes can persist but the labels evolve.
A: Monica Malhotra
02:02:15
How far back are we going for data collection? Race/Ethnicity data collection changed in 2010.
A: Monica Malhotra
02:03:55
CSU collects Non binary. Goes back to Ed's comment on difference between reporting from collection.
Jimi Gilroy (he/him)
02:04:14
For members of the public, we will have time for public comment at 1:45. Please chat me privately if you would like time for public comment.
Edward Sullivan
02:06:15
data maturity too... higher ed variables take 4-6 yrs to mature
Jimi Gilroy (he/him)
02:32:24
Speaking: Monica Malhotra, CSU
Jimi Gilroy (he/him)
02:35:11
Speaking: Patrick Delaney, DSS
Jimi Gilroy (he/him)
02:42:29
Speaking, David Sanabria, CHHS
Jimi Gilroy (he/him)
02:42:52
Speaking: Jerry Winkler, CDE
Jimi Gilroy (he/him)
02:43:08
Speaking: Monica Malhotra, CSU
A: Randy Tarnowski
02:43:14
Agreed - should prioritize that documentation has crosswalks for historical changes
Amy Fong
02:43:21
while we're discussing the more sensitive data elements, this concept broadly covers "the data" that will be in the cradle to career system - for example, definitions around high school graduates
Jimi Gilroy (he/him)
02:43:52
Speaking: Cameron Sublett, WestEd
A: David Sanabria
02:43:56
We can accomplish crosswalks by storing other authority’s reference lists and allowing our system to link one element from our standard to one or more elements in other lists
Edward Sullivan
02:43:57
Hispanic trumping also dropped Black and Native American counts
Edward Sullivan
02:44:19
white also dropped noticibly
A: David Sanabria
02:44:31
we *should* consider cross-reference now due to the need to translate between a variety of definitions.
Jimi Gilroy (he/him)
02:45:00
Speaking: Patrick Getz, DOL
A: Randy Tarnowski
02:45:12
Great observation re: SLEDS Cameron - comes back to the UI/UX piece and that it is fundamentally different than a * or footnote tucked away
Cameron Sublett
02:45:41
Exactly; thanks for elevating that issue.
A: Randy Tarnowski
02:48:37
Establish vocabulary for our definitions subcommittee (and Workgroup as a whole) to speak about data on two levels - in other words, what do we mean when we say “available”:
A: Patrick Getz
02:48:49
Policy
Amy Fong
02:48:50
policies - we have to assume collisions will happen
A: Chris Furgiuele
02:48:54
policy
A: Channa Hewawickrama
02:48:59
POLICIES FIRST
A: Valerie Mendelsohn
02:49:00
Policy
A: Monica Malhotra
02:49:01
Policy
A: Rima Mendez
02:49:03
policy
A: Jennifer Schwartz, CHHSA
02:49:03
definitions to inform discussions on policies
Edward Sullivan
02:50:51
for cohort studies (where they began) -- bad when cohorts swim
A: Patrick Getz
02:51:05
Recommend starting with foundational policies to be refined by specific discussions of the definitions.
Jimi Gilroy (he/him)
02:51:08
Question from: David Sanabria, CHHS
Jimi Gilroy (he/him)
03:05:53
Speaking: Dan Rounds, DOL
Jimi Gilroy (he/him)
03:06:17
Speaking: Patrick Getz, DOL
A: David Sanabria
03:07:54
What is the name of the system/program Dan and Patrick are speaking to?
Kathy Booth
03:08:07
CAAL-Skills
A: Dan Rounds
03:08:09
CAAL Skills
A: David Sanabria
03:09:04
Found a white paper. Is it still valid? https://cwdb.ca.gov/wp-content/uploads/sites/43/2016/08/Item-4.e.-CAAL-Skills-One-Pager.pdf
Jimi Gilroy (he/him)
03:10:05
Speaking: Dan Rounds, DOL
Jimi Gilroy (he/him)
03:18:04
Speaking: Patrick Getz, DOL
A: Monica Malhotra
03:18:46
IPEDS Race/Ethnicity categories for dashboard easier to present across systems.
Jimi Gilroy (he/him)
03:19:21
Speaking: Monica Malhotra, CSU
LeAnn Fong-Batkin
03:20:07
IPEDS Website: https://nces.ed.gov/ipeds/
A: Randy Tarnowski
03:20:34
Applaud thoughtfulness from Dan and Patrick around framing this. Data availability is a strong consideration: with a broader scope, buy-in can collectively educate about the limitations of the categories; if we provide more nuanced categorizations for certain subsets of agencies, we may provide a false sense of detail in aggregate
Jimi Gilroy (he/him)
03:20:46
Speaking: Chris Furgiuele, UCOP
Jimi Gilroy (he/him)
03:22:08
Speaking: Randy Tarnowski, AICCU
A: David Sanabria
03:23:17
Could we include mapping to external definitions as part of our work? Do we need 1) create our own list, 2) Merge/harmonize the variety of definitions that exist, or 3) do we simply identify the closest definition that fits what meets our objectives? Do we have those defined with principles to evaluate against?
Jimi Gilroy (he/him)
03:24:30
Speaking: Patrick Getz, DOL
A: David Sanabria
03:25:30
I think we need to start with some ground rules and principles: e.g. Include external references; preserve history of selected values; immutability (we only version, never update); etc.
Jimi Gilroy (he/him)
03:26:29
Speaking: David Sanabria, CHHS
Amy Fong
03:27:12
Framing and statements of intents seem like they would be helpful
Jimi Gilroy (he/him)
03:27:31
Speaking: Amy Fong, CSIS
Jimi Gilroy (he/him)
03:29:54
Please send an email to Kathy Booth and/or LeAnn Fong-Batkin if you have additional resources. kbooth@wested.org, lfongba@wested.org
Jimi Gilroy (he/him)
03:30:09
Speaking: David Sanabria, CHHS
Jimi Gilroy (he/him)
03:32:16
Speaking: Jerry Winkler, CDE
A: David Sanabria
03:33:31
I’d like to propose that any definitions that we come up with should be published to the State open data portal so that those definitions can be reused by vendors, researchers, and citizens. That will also encourage debate and discussion and a feedback loop.
Jimi Gilroy (he/him)
03:36:27
We will take a break for lunch and we will return at at 12:45 pm
Rhegille Baltazar
04:05:43
Speaking: Chris Furgiuele, UC
A: David Sanabria
04:06:50
Federal Reporting requirements also seem to be reflective of the current administration and its priorities
A: David Sanabria
04:09:47
It really points to the need to have objective methods for capturing these values, while thinking about how we map to different measures. Also, capturing those methods so they can be replicated, as Chris pointed out, are critical to maintaining that over time
Rhegille Baltazar
04:09:58
Speaking: Monica Malhotra, CSU
A: David Sanabria
04:11:22
Proposed Principle: Definitions should be tied to outcomes irrespective of current federal reporting requirements.
Jimi Gilroy (he/him)
04:12:44
Speaking: Jerry Winkler, CDE
A: Chris Furgiuele
04:13:25
Recent IPEDS technical review panel on complying with federal gender reporting and possible future directions. https://edsurveys.rti.org/IPEDS_TRP_DOCS/prod/documents/TRP51_Summary.pdf
Jimi Gilroy (he/him)
04:13:29
Speaking: Monica Malhotra, CSU
Jimi Gilroy (he/him)
04:15:22
Speaking: Patrick Getz, DOL
A: David Sanabria
04:16:00
Many of the data capture requirements are defined in contracts written and awarded years ago. We need to define a standard that works for our needs and then provide mapping guidance.
A: Randy Tarnowski
04:16:12
Just to add an n of 2 from ICCUs: Mills College collects two levels: sex (M/F) and gender identity (Cis Woman Cis Man Gender Queer/Gender Non-Conforming/Gender Fluid Trans Man Trans Woman An Option Not Listed ) and University of La Verne: Male, Female, Non Binary, and Transgender
Jimi Gilroy (he/him)
04:17:04
Speaking: Chris Furgiuele, UCOP
A: Jennifer Schwartz, CHHSA
04:18:36
California
A: David Sanabria
04:18:38
If we’re going to map (our) value to (their) value, we can be objective/random, or can use that as an opportunity to effect a policy objective.
A: David Sanabria
04:18:40
California
A: Todd Britton
04:18:42
California
A: Adrian Felix
04:18:46
CA
A: Chris Furgiuele
04:18:47
https://edsurveys.rti.org/IPEDS_TRP_DOCS/prod/documents/TRP51_Summary.pdf
A: Jerry Winkler
04:18:47
California
A: Dan Rounds
04:18:48
Ca
A: Joanna Murray, BPPE
04:18:50
CA
A: Channa Hewawickrama
04:18:51
California
Jimi Gilroy (he/him)
04:18:55
Thank you!
A: Chris Furgiuele
04:18:57
CA categories
A: Valerie Mendelsohn
04:19:01
California
A: Rima Mendez
04:19:16
California
A: Patrick Getz
04:20:01
California. Unless the system is used for federal reporting (which, I don't think it is.)
A: Randy Tarnowski
04:20:22
I agree Jennifer but would also think we would miss if we do not capture a wide net of agencies/institutions, etc.
A: Randy Tarnowski
04:21:11
Perhaps adding a second field to be what they might have been imputed as and add a “view” to dashboards
A: Monica Malhotra
04:21:18
Collect NB and Suppress for smaller cells.
Jimi Gilroy (he/him)
04:21:44
Speaking: Chris Furgiuele, UCOP
A: David Sanabria
04:21:56
+1 to Chris F’s comment
Randy Bonnell
04:22:08
Depending on the level (e.g., state vs. school), small cell sizes may not need to be suppressed. So, we could provide state-level small Ns, but be more thoughtful about how to suppress data at lower where re-identification is more of a concern.'
A: Jennifer Schwartz, CHHSA
04:22:39
Agree with Chris F
Jimi Gilroy (he/him)
04:23:32
Speaking: Randy Tarnowski, AICCU
A: Monica Malhotra
04:24:15
No category should feel like they've been hidden away.
A: David Sanabria
04:24:29
Proposed Principle: Definitions should be biased toward inclusion at the expense of allowing small cells.
Jimi Gilroy (he/him)
04:24:51
Speaking: Jennifer Schwartz, CHHSA
Jimi Gilroy (he/him)
04:26:30
Speaking: David Sanabria, CHHS
Jimi Gilroy (he/him)
04:29:00
Speaking: Randy Tarnowski, AICCU
Jimi Gilroy (he/him)
04:33:10
Speaking: Dan Rounds, DOL
Jimi Gilroy (he/him)
04:36:07
Question from: Ravinder Singh, WestEd
Jimi Gilroy (he/him)
04:36:22
Speaking: Monica Malhotra, CSU
A: Chris Furgiuele
04:36:39
The UCLA School of Law’s Williams Institute publishes resources on how to collect LGBTQ demographic information. https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/quick-facts/survey-measures/
Jimi Gilroy (he/him)
04:36:40
Speaking: Jerry Winkler, CDE
Jimi Gilroy (he/him)
04:37:00
Speaking: Chris Furgiuele, UCOP
Jimi Gilroy (he/him)
04:40:42
Speaking: Jennifer Schwartz, CHHSA
LeAnn Fong-Batkin
04:42:10
Civil Code Section 1798 (Information Practices Act): http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displayexpandedbranch.xhtml?tocCode=CIV&division=3.&title=1.8.&part=4.&chapter=1.&article=
Jimi Gilroy (he/him)
04:43:06
Speaking: David Sanabria, CHHS
Jimi Gilroy (he/him)
04:43:55
Speaking: Jennifer Schwartz, CHHSA
Jimi Gilroy (he/him)
04:48:12
Speaking: David Sanabria, CHHS
Jimi Gilroy (he/him)
04:49:13
Speaking: Monica Malhotra, USC
Jimi Gilroy (he/him)
04:50:46
Speaking: Joanna Murray, BPPE
Jimi Gilroy (he/him)
04:51:24
Speaking: Valerie Mendelsohn, West Coast University
Jimi Gilroy (he/him)
04:51:41
Speaking: Todd Britton, University of LaVerne
Jimi Gilroy (he/him)
04:52:39
Speaking: Adrian Felix, CSAC
Jimi Gilroy (he/him)
04:53:44
Speaking: Erin Skubal, CCTC
Jimi Gilroy (he/him)
04:54:57
Speaking: Todd Hoig, CCCCO
A: David Sanabria
04:57:16
Strongly recommend that we follow the model developed by USC Childrens Data Network (CDN) for the person matching.
Jimi Gilroy (he/him)
05:01:31
Question from: Chris Furgiuele, UCOP
A: David Sanabria
05:03:22
FWIW, the CHHS Agency Program Dashboard, based on the linkage work done by USC CDN, uses an 80% match threshold for linking people across programs
Jimi Gilroy (he/him)
05:07:32
Please feel free to reach out to LeAnn Fong-Batkin at lfongba@wested.org
Jimi Gilroy (he/him)
05:07:51
Speaking: Monica Malhotra, USC
Jimi Gilroy (he/him)
05:09:50
CORRECTION: Monica Malhotra, CSU
Jimi Gilroy (he/him)
05:10:12
Speaking: Dan Rounds, DOL